The Man Who Would Be King
May. 12th, 2011 10:53 amSupernatural - "The Man Who Would Be King"
Where to start?
I've seen a lot of reactions to this episode: love, hate, anger, disappointment, tears, satisfaction, boredom. Happiness. Count me in the "loved it" camp, with a side of happy. There are a few things I'm kind of "eh" about, but overall? I thought it was fantastic. It left me feeling satisfied and centered, mellow. I threw "happy" in there and I think that probably implies the wrong things? But when I think about the episode--not look at graphics, thanks, because those I am finding make me sad--no, when I think about the episode, I am somewhere closer to happy. We're getting answers and Castiel loves the Winchesters.
Granted, the answers we're getting are ones we pretty much already knew or could guess. There hasn't really been a whole lot of new information. But, eh, I'm fine with that since I feel like lately the show is making up for the fairly lackluster season.
And Castiel does love the Winchesters. Deeply. The only issue I really had with this--and the episode--was how tacked on his friendship/connection with Sam still feels. There's been a whole lot of telling and not much showing, which is disappointing. I like the potential I can see between Castiel and Sam. I would have liked to have seen them move from "abomination" to tolerance to friendship. (I'm sure it would have started with Castiel trying to be Sam's friend because Dean loves Sam so much.)
But no. It's just there. And love Sam though I do, it rings a little hollow when Castiel talks about the boys or the Winchesters or Dean and Sam.
Bobby and Sam may have been included in the holy fire interrogation, but that was between Dean and Castiel. You can't tell me it wasn't. Castiel didn't turn to Bobby and Sam when it came down to "Where were you when I needed to hear it." Dean didn't tell him they all--well, Bobby since he didn't know about Sam--were there for him. It was about Dean and it was about Castiel. How they relate to each other. Bobby and Sam were superfluous.
How heartbreaking is that, by the way? That Castiel was desperate for Dean's guidance and that Dean would have happily been there for him, but neither were able to cross that line? Augh. Why is everyone so bad at communication? I mean, it rings true (and real, which I like--see further down) because I know what that's like to want someone to be there and feel like you can't ask them for that support.
Which has now got me thinking about Dean and his "normal" life and whether or not he ever felt completely alone once he removed himself from the things that were familiar.
Anyway.
The other thing that didn't completely work for me? The voice-over. I mean, I love listening to Misha's Cas-voice (duh), but voice-overs are always kind of iffy. Parts of it were also a little more, hmm, colloquial than I generally think of Castiel. More conversational. We'll blame Dean.
I still don't understand all of the evil!Cas/darkside!Cas talk. (Kinky alternate universe pairing in which everyone has goatees?) I do not see it. I can see how this could potentially lead him there, but right now? No. He isn't evil. He isn't dark. He's in a spectacularly shitty situation having to make remarkably difficult decisions. Dean can ask him not to as much as he wants, but what other choice does he have? I mean, I'm sure they'd probably eventually stumble on some way to beat Raphael, but can you blame Castiel for thinking this is what he has to do? Because, seriously, Dean? What's your plan?
The way I think of Castiel's situation is like this: he's a general in a war and he has his troops. Sometimes you make a decision and send them in fighting and none of them come back. That's the way war works. That doesn't make Castiel bad.
And I think...I think he's trying to get out of it. Someone pointed out to me that he made a deal with Crowley, which he really did have to be talked into, and Crowley gave him fifty thousand souls. The same number he got from the Titanic incident (which makes that whole thing less looney toons). Attempting to pay Crowley off?
See? I'm sure if Dean, Sam, and Bobby would just sit and listen to everything Castiel has to say--admittedly, he has been lying and I could see why they would still be wary--he may eventually get to "I tried to get out of our contract, but I only made things worse."
It sort of comes back to Dean calling him a child. Freedom and free will and choice are all still so new to Castiel and, as we were told repeatedly, angels aren't built for that. (Oh, fic idea.) Anyone can make the same mistakes Castiel is making, but it's not like he has much experience doing these things for himself. He is a bit like a child.
As for Dean/Castiel--come on, you knew it was inevitable that I'd talk about it specifically, right?--I feel like I keep seeing a lot of talk about, oh, there goes that ship. Like evil!Castiel, I'm sorry, but all I have to say is what are people talking about? As someone who likes slash and who likes that pairing, I have never been more certain about how much Dean and Castiel care for each other. Hell, let's even step back from homoerotic readings and just say this: Dean and Castiel matter to each other.
I've always liked that things weren't easy for Dean and Cas. That even though they had a connection, they still fought and got snippy with each other. They wouldn't waste so much time on the other if they didn't care.
Castiel is family. Dean has said it himself. We know how much Dean cares for family and how much he'll do to save it. We've seen Dean and Sam completely break apart at the end of season four when Sam thought he was doing the right thing by going with Ruby and stopping Lilith because he thought it was right. Sam wasn't evil, he was just misled. Now we're seeing Dean (and Bobby and Sam) and Castiel break apart because Castiel thinks what he's doing is right. I'm hoping the parallels will continue and that it will work out.
And by "it will work out" I mean "no one will die."
If you have heard any rumors, do not spoil me.
I do have speculation about how I think the rest of the season will play out and what sort of cliffhanger we will get, but I'd rather not go into that now.
Meanwhile, how about some random things:
- Cas visiting Dean in the Impala. Dean wanting Cas to call if he got into trouble. Dean clinging so desperately to his loyalty, to Cas being their friend. Bringing up how often Cas has been there for them. Dean, where was this concern the rest of the season?
- The smiling before it all went to hell. Oh, my heart.
- The Tower of Babel. LOL.
- Dean and Castiel's faces during the whole holy fire interrogation. Dean's face before he ran. OMG. Jensen and Misha killed it. Wow.
- Crowley, I do love you quite a lot. I think last season--or the beginning of this season?--I wanted more Crowley and Cas scenes, so I'm happy to get those. And there was that line about the stench of the Impala being all over Cas. Oh, Cas.
- Castiel pulled Sam out of Hell. Because of his voice-over and his reaction to Sam's question about his soul, I tend to think he wasn't lying about Sam's soul getting left behind. I think he was flying high on fixing things and Sam was in a slightly different situation than Dean was, potentially a tougher spot to get out. (It was a cage meant to keep Lucifer trapped, after all.)
And, y'know, on the one hand I would have liked the whole saving from perdition thing to be exclusively something Dean and Castiel shared, but whatever. Castiel knows how much Sam matters to Dean.
- Castiel continues to look amazing by firelight. /shallow
As usual, I feel like I probably have more to say, but I have other things I need to get doing right now. Perhaps later.
Where to start?
I've seen a lot of reactions to this episode: love, hate, anger, disappointment, tears, satisfaction, boredom. Happiness. Count me in the "loved it" camp, with a side of happy. There are a few things I'm kind of "eh" about, but overall? I thought it was fantastic. It left me feeling satisfied and centered, mellow. I threw "happy" in there and I think that probably implies the wrong things? But when I think about the episode--not look at graphics, thanks, because those I am finding make me sad--no, when I think about the episode, I am somewhere closer to happy. We're getting answers and Castiel loves the Winchesters.
Granted, the answers we're getting are ones we pretty much already knew or could guess. There hasn't really been a whole lot of new information. But, eh, I'm fine with that since I feel like lately the show is making up for the fairly lackluster season.
And Castiel does love the Winchesters. Deeply. The only issue I really had with this--and the episode--was how tacked on his friendship/connection with Sam still feels. There's been a whole lot of telling and not much showing, which is disappointing. I like the potential I can see between Castiel and Sam. I would have liked to have seen them move from "abomination" to tolerance to friendship. (I'm sure it would have started with Castiel trying to be Sam's friend because Dean loves Sam so much.)
But no. It's just there. And love Sam though I do, it rings a little hollow when Castiel talks about the boys or the Winchesters or Dean and Sam.
Bobby and Sam may have been included in the holy fire interrogation, but that was between Dean and Castiel. You can't tell me it wasn't. Castiel didn't turn to Bobby and Sam when it came down to "Where were you when I needed to hear it." Dean didn't tell him they all--well, Bobby since he didn't know about Sam--were there for him. It was about Dean and it was about Castiel. How they relate to each other. Bobby and Sam were superfluous.
How heartbreaking is that, by the way? That Castiel was desperate for Dean's guidance and that Dean would have happily been there for him, but neither were able to cross that line? Augh. Why is everyone so bad at communication? I mean, it rings true (and real, which I like--see further down) because I know what that's like to want someone to be there and feel like you can't ask them for that support.
Which has now got me thinking about Dean and his "normal" life and whether or not he ever felt completely alone once he removed himself from the things that were familiar.
Anyway.
The other thing that didn't completely work for me? The voice-over. I mean, I love listening to Misha's Cas-voice (duh), but voice-overs are always kind of iffy. Parts of it were also a little more, hmm, colloquial than I generally think of Castiel. More conversational. We'll blame Dean.
I still don't understand all of the evil!Cas/darkside!Cas talk. (Kinky alternate universe pairing in which everyone has goatees?) I do not see it. I can see how this could potentially lead him there, but right now? No. He isn't evil. He isn't dark. He's in a spectacularly shitty situation having to make remarkably difficult decisions. Dean can ask him not to as much as he wants, but what other choice does he have? I mean, I'm sure they'd probably eventually stumble on some way to beat Raphael, but can you blame Castiel for thinking this is what he has to do? Because, seriously, Dean? What's your plan?
The way I think of Castiel's situation is like this: he's a general in a war and he has his troops. Sometimes you make a decision and send them in fighting and none of them come back. That's the way war works. That doesn't make Castiel bad.
And I think...I think he's trying to get out of it. Someone pointed out to me that he made a deal with Crowley, which he really did have to be talked into, and Crowley gave him fifty thousand souls. The same number he got from the Titanic incident (which makes that whole thing less looney toons). Attempting to pay Crowley off?
See? I'm sure if Dean, Sam, and Bobby would just sit and listen to everything Castiel has to say--admittedly, he has been lying and I could see why they would still be wary--he may eventually get to "I tried to get out of our contract, but I only made things worse."
It sort of comes back to Dean calling him a child. Freedom and free will and choice are all still so new to Castiel and, as we were told repeatedly, angels aren't built for that. (Oh, fic idea.) Anyone can make the same mistakes Castiel is making, but it's not like he has much experience doing these things for himself. He is a bit like a child.
As for Dean/Castiel--come on, you knew it was inevitable that I'd talk about it specifically, right?--I feel like I keep seeing a lot of talk about, oh, there goes that ship. Like evil!Castiel, I'm sorry, but all I have to say is what are people talking about? As someone who likes slash and who likes that pairing, I have never been more certain about how much Dean and Castiel care for each other. Hell, let's even step back from homoerotic readings and just say this: Dean and Castiel matter to each other.
I've always liked that things weren't easy for Dean and Cas. That even though they had a connection, they still fought and got snippy with each other. They wouldn't waste so much time on the other if they didn't care.
Castiel is family. Dean has said it himself. We know how much Dean cares for family and how much he'll do to save it. We've seen Dean and Sam completely break apart at the end of season four when Sam thought he was doing the right thing by going with Ruby and stopping Lilith because he thought it was right. Sam wasn't evil, he was just misled. Now we're seeing Dean (and Bobby and Sam) and Castiel break apart because Castiel thinks what he's doing is right. I'm hoping the parallels will continue and that it will work out.
And by "it will work out" I mean "no one will die."
If you have heard any rumors, do not spoil me.
I do have speculation about how I think the rest of the season will play out and what sort of cliffhanger we will get, but I'd rather not go into that now.
Meanwhile, how about some random things:
- Cas visiting Dean in the Impala. Dean wanting Cas to call if he got into trouble. Dean clinging so desperately to his loyalty, to Cas being their friend. Bringing up how often Cas has been there for them. Dean, where was this concern the rest of the season?
- The smiling before it all went to hell. Oh, my heart.
- The Tower of Babel. LOL.
- Dean and Castiel's faces during the whole holy fire interrogation. Dean's face before he ran. OMG. Jensen and Misha killed it. Wow.
- Crowley, I do love you quite a lot. I think last season--or the beginning of this season?--I wanted more Crowley and Cas scenes, so I'm happy to get those. And there was that line about the stench of the Impala being all over Cas. Oh, Cas.
- Castiel pulled Sam out of Hell. Because of his voice-over and his reaction to Sam's question about his soul, I tend to think he wasn't lying about Sam's soul getting left behind. I think he was flying high on fixing things and Sam was in a slightly different situation than Dean was, potentially a tougher spot to get out. (It was a cage meant to keep Lucifer trapped, after all.)
And, y'know, on the one hand I would have liked the whole saving from perdition thing to be exclusively something Dean and Castiel shared, but whatever. Castiel knows how much Sam matters to Dean.
- Castiel continues to look amazing by firelight. /shallow
As usual, I feel like I probably have more to say, but I have other things I need to get doing right now. Perhaps later.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 06:10 pm (UTC)IA with you re Cas knowing about Sam's soul – I really don't think he did. In my headcanon Sam has no handprint because he had no soul in him when Cas raised him (because in a subdivision of my headcanon, the handprint equates to Cas's mark on Dean's soul). And of course since CAs isn't in the habit of seeing Sam nekkid (like he most definitely is with Dean, as we know…) he had no clue the soul wasn't in situ. Once he knew, I'm thinking he feared what Sam's soul might have been transformed into by its co-residency with Lucifer over all that time. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Also agree Dean prolly couldn't have helped. Assuming a day in Heaven is like a day in Hell (where four months = 40 years) then in Earth time that might have only given Cas an hour to decide.
Yes, as you can see I have thought way too much about this.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-13 05:20 am (UTC)There are a lot of things I wish we'd seen more of season-long. Sigh. As you say, spilt milk.
IA with you re Cas knowing about Sam's soul – I really don't think he did. In my headcanon Sam has no handprint because he had no soul in him when Cas raised him (because in a subdivision of my headcanon, the handprint equates to Cas's mark on Dean's soul)
Ooooh. This is interesting. Though...where was Sam's soul then? Was it different because Sam was carrying someone else--Lucifer--with him when he jumped? I love the idea that the handprint = marking of soul.
Assuming a day in Heaven is like a day in Hell (where four months = 40 years) then in Earth time that might have only given Cas an hour to decide.
There is that...And even if Dean could have given Castiel advice then....what options were there, I wonder? Would they have found something to avert another apocalypse easily? How much bad would have happened first?
Augh. Poor Cas. None of his options were really very good.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 06:10 pm (UTC)But yes, this is definitely not the end of the ship, if anything this cements it. My friend told me that after this episode she can really see the Dean/Cas, instead of just liking it as a side thing.
I thought the same thing about Cas dragging Sam out of Hell, that yeah, that should Cas and Dean's thing, but then you have to wonder what Castiel was referring to when he said 'Dean and I do share a more profound bond' in 6x03, because I guess it wasn't pulling him out of hell and remaking him if he did that for Sam too. I like to think he meant the hot sex they were so clearly having in season 5 (before Cas fucked off to Heaven at the end and left Dean alone), but either way he obviously considers their friendship more prominent too.
Talking of Cas fucking off to Heaven, I figure that's why Dean's been so off with him. I am talking solely through personal canon/shipping here, but I mean, they had a pretty close relationship throughout 5. It wasn't easy, but Dean needed Cas. Then Sam dies and Castiel disappears. And Sam was dead and then soulless so he has an excuse for not coming to see Dean, and Dean would forgive Sam anything anyway.
Castiel though, the way Dean would see it ('cause obviously Castiel has had important and busy shit going on), just wasn't there. Then he drops in a year later and oh, hello. It was like post-breakup where both of them still care for each other.
I think the whole souls deal has made Dean realise that Castiel is important to him, that Castiel needs them as much as they need him. He didn't know the kind of trouble Cas was in. If he had, I think he would have been a lot more helpful.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-13 04:49 am (UTC)I like to think he meant the hot sex they were so clearly having in season 5 (before Cas fucked off to Heaven at the end and left Dean alone), but either way he obviously considers their friendship more prominent too.
Talking of Cas fucking off to Heaven, I figure that's why Dean's been so off with him.
Yes, yes, it was all the hot sex. ;) Or it's just that, even with pulling them both out of Hell, Dean just matters more. He was first. He was many firsts. He's always going to be the one Castiel turns to, the one he goes to for guidance or forgiveness or advice. It wasn't Sam who Castiel tried to explain himself to at the end of 6.20, it was Dean.
And as for fucking off to Heaven, oh yes, I definitely agree that's why Dean's been off with Cas. I remember when that episode aired and Castiel just up and left, I wanted to shake Dean for being annoyed because he didn't actually ask him to stay. Cas has been learning how important family is--even when they fuck up--from the Winchesters, he couldn't stay on Earth. But Dean can't ask him to stay. Or he couldn't, not at that point...It's interesting that now Dean's at a point where he can tell Cas at least something that he wants, point blank. "Don't."
And Cas has to turn around and do it anyway. Siiiiiiigh.
I think the whole souls deal has made Dean realise that Castiel is important to him, that Castiel needs them as much as they need him. He didn't know the kind of trouble Cas was in. If he had, I think he would have been a lot more helpful.
Agreed. The bit in the Impala where Dean wanted Cas to reassure him that he'd call if he got into trouble, any trouble, was heartbreaking. They've both hoisted the other onto pedestals--high ones--and then forgotten that they're fallible. Last season we saw Cas lose faith in Dean, the last thing he had faith in--and oh wasn't its restoration in Heaven ("It was the Winchesters.") beautiful?--and here it's Cas who has fallen in Dean's eyes. I'm hoping they continue the parallel and have Dean's faith restored.
If Dean had seen the trouble Cas was in, and if Cas had only stepped forward and said, "Here, I need help. I need you," a lot could have been averted I think. But again with Dean exhibiting that shrugging "oh that's fine, see if I care" behavior from before.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 06:32 pm (UTC)I'm like you in some of the reactions leave me scratching my head going "are we watching the same show?" How do you get there? It's so very clear to me how he had hardly any time, he wanted to spare Dean and Crowley smooth talked him into a bad decision. Still if he hadn't done it - and this is why I'm still just a tiny bit upset with the Boys & Bobby - if he hadn't done anything? Boom. Armageddon on and everyone dead. Take Two.
And oohhh, love the spec that he might have been trying to pay Crowley off with the Titanic souls.
I can't say I'm sorry that they went the Ring of Fire route though because the images and the heartbreak and the pure beauty of this scene will be engraved in my mind forever.
Great analysis.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-13 05:05 pm (UTC)I love that Cas has learned so much from Dean, but seriously? He couldn't find someone a little more emotionally healthy to model himself after? It just makes things harder.
Not making a dirty joke there. Not doing it. ;)
Still if he hadn't done it - and this is why I'm still just a tiny bit upset with the Boys & Bobby - if he hadn't done anything? Boom. Armageddon on and everyone dead. Take Two.
YES. Yes. Ugh. They don't seem to grasp the severity of the situation. They're focusing on the little picture: Cas made a deal with a demon and has been lying to them. And then Dean asks him to stop, just to stop because Dean is asking and that's all well and good, but what possible hope can they have? I mean, I'm sure they could pull something off (as they do), but from Castiel's POV? What chance do they have?
Which is, again, reminding me of Sam's certainty that he was doing the right thing with Lilith and Ruby.
omg this show.
I wish I could take credit for noticing Crowley and the Titanic souls, but I can't. Once it was pointed out, though? Oh, Cas. I hope that's what he was trying to do.
The Ring of Fire route was gorgeous. And heartbreaking. A literal barrier between them, keeping Castiel at a distance. Had it been gone, you can't tell me they wouldn't have been right in each other's faces, like the green room all over again.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 06:38 pm (UTC)It sort of comes back to Dean calling him a child. Freedom and free will and choice are all still so new to Castiel and, as we were told repeatedly, angels aren't built for that.
I feel like Castiel was asking for a sign -- anything, please, to give him the guidance he so sorely needs, being new to this free will gig -- not realizing that God has indeed given him a sign, and that sign is Dean motherf'ing Winchester. Dean is (and has been, in the past, I think) the external moral compass Castiel was built without, being an angel and all.
Someone else described it as Dean being like Castiel's His Dark Materials daemon. Which I kind of love a lot and am already twisting around in my brain as some kind of AU fic.
It's all part of the profound bond. Castiel himself has said over and over (and again here!) that he has done everything, all of it, for Dean. For Dean, but also because of. Dean is the one who gets in his face and argues, and forces him to behave in a manner Castiel was never meant to.
And Castiel knows that at least to a point, and sought Dean out for at least partly that reason, but he couldn't bring himself to ask -- to make use of Dean in that fashion -- because what it would inevitably do to Dean.
Which leaves me clutching my heart and bleating for them.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 08:50 pm (UTC)I actually wondered if somehow Cas was created from or for Dean's being raised from hell. I don't know how that would work exactly, but I like to think about it.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-18 07:22 am (UTC)Yes! I've always loved that. Dean and Castiel challenge each other and complement each other and it really is lovely.
Oh, I hadn't thought of him being like Cas' daemon before, but I could see that. And isn't it interesting that it's the figure not connected to any faith that provides guidance to an angel of the Lord?
Castiel himself has said over and over (and again here!) that he has done everything, all of it, for Dean.
Ah! I meant to talk about that, too. Or at least mention it. I love the repetition, the reminder of the things Castiel has done in Dean's name. Which just leads me back to the first time they met face to face and Castiel realized Dean didn't think he deserved to be saved. I'm sure Dean doesn't think he deserves that sort of faith, has trouble grasping how Castiel could make these grand gestures because of him. (Granted this time Dean isn't so thrilled...)
Oh god, these two. They kill me.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 08:48 pm (UTC)I'm really hoping that the finale will involve the boys and Bobby throwing in with Cas despite everything and that they find some kind of third way out of the situation. But I don't know. Augh.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-18 07:32 am (UTC)I'm really just hoping characters survive. Well, okay, and that they realize Castiel hasn't gone bad the way they think he has. Understanding and communication would be nice.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 09:03 pm (UTC)But this is what makes Dean/Castiel so special. Things aren't easy for them. There are just so many different dynamics in play between them and that episode took all of them and tore me apart by the end.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-18 07:36 am (UTC)I love that things aren't easy. I love that they get angry and frustrated and the air gets charged. There's a depth of feeling there--however you might choose to read that feeling--that's fantastic.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 09:31 pm (UTC)I don't get it either. It's clearly obvious from the way he acts that's he very obviously conflicted about the whole thing. The fact that he was praying for a sign just details this.
Basically, Dean and Castiel's main issues boil down to communication. If they simply talked about this stuff, it wouldn't be so complicated.
And I admit as much as I laughed at the idea of Dean being Castiel's conscience, it's so true. Castiel helps Dean think of the bigger picture while Dean helps Castiel think of the smaller things.
Dean, where was this concern the rest of the season?
This! For the most part, Dean and Sam have really given much concern to Castiel and his problems, so for Dean to be all worried now kind of threw me.
I mean I know Dean cares about Cas but this seems like another classic example of the show's "Show not Tell" approach.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-18 06:30 pm (UTC)Exactly. Dean humanizes Castiel, for better or worse, because an angel has no use for human morals. They shouldn't. And then it gets interesting because we're trying to put human accountability on something that isn't human. Which makes me feel even worse for Castiel because he really wasn't made for this, but he's trying oh so hard.
I think the problem with Sam and Dean isn't so much that they haven't cared, but that the show has done a poor job of showing it. We did get that moment at the end of "Caged Heat" (which threw me more than this did because I think it's built up more since then) where Dean is all concerned, understanding friend. Goes back to their communication issues.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 10:47 pm (UTC)Heh.
Adore it.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-18 06:36 pm (UTC)Now if only they'd actually have a conversation.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-12 11:45 pm (UTC)But really, the holy fire interrogation scene just solidified the 'ship for me. In fact, that is what the whole episode did.
I DIED when Cas made the superman reference andDean'sfaceohmygod. :(
I have a big problem with Cas and Sam's relationship. It's like, "AH! I DID THIS FOR YOU DEAN.....oh hi Sam, didn't see you there, i sorta did it for you too......" It just seems like the writers write the dialog and then are like, "CRAP! Sam's standing right there too...awkward. Tac a shout out to Sam on there." I think if they would have given Sam and Cas the hug (you know, the one were they awkwardly moved away...) that would have been a step in the right direction.
But......i love all the Dean/Cas moments so I'm not complaining :)
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-20 03:24 am (UTC)And, yeah, I did the whole face-cover, slide-down-the-bed thing when Cas made that reference. I think an "OH NO" was involved, too. Augh.
It just seems like the writers write the dialog and then are like, "CRAP! Sam's standing right there too...awkward. Tac a shout out to Sam on there."
That's exactly what it feels like. I mean, I love the idea of Sam and Cas as friends, but I think the writers have gone about it the wrong way by not showing us anything.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-13 01:53 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-20 04:36 am (UTC)Yeeees. Why can't they just have a conversation where they actually listen to each other without shutting the other out?
Sigh.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-13 04:33 am (UTC)The unsurprising nature of the reveals here don't feel so much like oh, ho hum, already knew that, as the satisfaction of inevitability. The show planted clues all along. The shock part is that the show went there, and let the emotions out that had been hinted at and hinted at.
Okay, I will go THIS and YES all over this: As someone who likes slash and who likes that pairing, I have never been more certain about how much Dean and Castiel care for each other. Hell, let's even step back from homoerotic readings and just say this: Dean and Castiel matter to each other.
This was so affirming and breaking at the same time, but mostly it was affirming and I can't see this any other way but "Dean and Castiel really care about each other, no REALLY."
Also word on the evil!Cas thing. I'm not seeing it. He's making some dangerous mistakes but him going all dark and becoming a full antagonist would be kind of a big bzuh? to me at this point.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-20 01:51 pm (UTC)That's exactly how I felt. And I love that they've taken the emotional route I was hoping for. I know a lot of people were worried beforehand about Castiel's actions, but this really did him justice, I feel.
Here's hoping that continues. ::crosses fingers::
He's making some dangerous mistakes but him going all dark and becoming a full antagonist would be kind of a big bzuh? to me at this point.
Yeah, I don't...I really do not get it. And I imagine I won't get it if they really go that route. He's so clearly conflicted and, I think, more ready to break and go back to Dean and Sam and Bobby--especially if they're put into real danger--than he is to go full-on baddie. (I hope, I hope.) He did tell Dean he'd rather be there with them most of the time.
Ugh. I want the show now.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-13 03:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-20 01:53 pm (UTC)Right.
::crosses fingers::
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-20 02:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-14 03:07 am (UTC)And, y'know, on the one hand I would have liked the whole saving from perdition thing to be exclusively something Dean and Castiel shared, but whatever. Castiel knows how much Sam matters to Dean.
It... actually wasn't even until you said that that it even *occurred* to me that Cas saved Sam for Sam. Which sounds weird, I guess, but it does tie into what you were saying about the Cas-Sam connection not really being there. I mean - there was the moment where Cas and Sam were outside Lisa's house together, and then Sam turns and walks away, and Cas... apparently shrugs his shoulders and never follows up to see what's going on with Sam? Like "Oh well, I tried to reunite him with Dean." You can't tell me he would have let Dean wander off like that without following up (we pretty much know he wouldn't have - hi, stalker!angel!)
And WORD on making up for a lacklustre season. I figured they were headed for bad-or-at-least-sketchy!Cas, but they'd so thoroughly mistreated the relationship I didn't see how they were going to get the necessary emotional payoff... and then they did the fallout from Cas' POV. Bravo, show - way to win me back wholeheartedly.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-05-20 02:05 pm (UTC)No, no not weird at all! I think that's one of the issues with the Cas/Sam relationship. It feels like it's Dean-motivated because we don't see them bond at all. Also--now it's been two weeks since I've seen the ep and I only saw it once--but also it felt very...Dean is unhappy, I will bring Sam back because I have the power and that will make Dean unhappy.
It makes me wonder if Cas checked in with Sam at all. I want to guess maybe a little? I feel we saw him being aware of Sam beating the crap out of people. Or maybe he avoided it because he realized he'd done wrong and didn't want to face that mistake head-on. But yes, Dean he definitely would've followed up on. Of that there is proof. ;)
I'm still not sure Cas is even that sketchy. I don't know, maybe that's strange. Or naive of me. But his attitude--to me--so clearly reads that he'd rather be doing something else that I'm having trouble thinking of him like that.
But yes it was very smart of them to go for this episode the way they did. By putting us in Cas' shoes--or at least closer to them--it's much harder to completely vilify him, I think. Plus, it really tightened up the storyline.
Ooh, I can't wait for tonight.