Supernatural

[annundriel]

I honestly have no idea if any of this makes any sense. My head won't stop hurting.

Supernatural - "My Heart Will Go On"

Is this episode a good example of how ep descriptions and spoilers can be misleading? I think it might be. Because that was one hell of a stupid premise--Balthazar changes history because he doesn't want the Titanic to sink?--that turned into something pretty heartbreaking.

God damn it, Cas, you're killing me.

I spent the majority of the episode mildly annoyed because this seemed like a one-off plot that they don't have time for and then the truth came out and, yeah. I have to admit, that was nicely done.

As much as I might dread where it could go, I'm very excited about the shit hitting the fan. Because you know it's going to. There is no way it can't. It's going to be epic and heartbreaking and I cannot wait. Misha and Jensen are going to blow it out of the water.

Anyway. Random:

- "You're confusing me with the other angel. You know, the one in the dirty trench coat who's in love with you."

I don't know, I'm still kind of "meh" about it. I like it--I like it a lot, can't deny that--but at the same time... ::shrug:: Balthazar also called Cas Sam's boyfriend. (Maybe he is trying to start a fight between Dean and Sam? ;) Assuming that line was meant for Dean and not both of them.) I want to be excited for it like a lot of people are, but I'm just not.

- "...You need new friends, Cas."
"I'm trying to save the ones I have, Dean."

THAT. That is the line that got me. The way Cas said it, the tone and look, that hit me hard. Tied in with the Cas' scene with Fate later? He gave them truth wrapped up in a whole lot of lies. Because that's what it comes down to. The apocalypse didn't happen, there's chaos everywhere, Castiel is trying to make things work, and he's desperate to keep Dean and Sam safe.

It's Castiel's turn to answer: peace or freedom? And freedom at what cost?

Huh. I was just reminded of the idea that we can't ascribe human morality on non-human entities. We try to make sense of God and God's actions, but God isn't looking at things on the same level we are. We're back to God and God's bigger picture that Castiel talked about in "Are You There God? It's Me, Dean Winchester" and "It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester." We're even looking at a similar situation with the 50,000 people who would never be born if the Titanic sank. I imagine to a deity and an angelic being, that's small potatoes.

Except that Castiel is tied to Dean and Sam, and Castiel's been human, and this isn't just something he can distance himself from. He gave up everything to keep Dean's good opinion of him, to keep Dean's friendship. He's playing with history and souls now, the lives of thousands. He knows what Dean's opinion of that will be, and he desperately wants them to understand why he's doing what he is.

"You’re the ones who taught me that you can make your own destiny, that you don’t have to be ruled by fate. You can choose freedom. I still believe that that’s something worth fighting for. I just wanted you to understand that."

Cas. Cas.

He's going to break my heart.

- Considering who Castiel's human role models are, it's not entirely surprising he's behaving the way he is. Or making the choices he is. End of season five, he left Dean to help Heaven because Heaven was his family and Dean had shown him that you help your family. They may be dicks, but you're there for them.

The Winchesters are willing to let history change--to a point--to keep loved ones alive. So is Castiel.

- I wish this show made more sense sometimes. There's Fate--Atropos--from Greek mythology, but she's subject to God's will? Like we were given other deities and they were all sort of powerless in the face of, well, Lucifer (a friggin' angel)?

What.

Whatever, SPN. What. Ever.

(Least powerful all-powerful beings ever.)

Earlier in the day, after reading the episode description, my mom and I were like, "Whenever they say 'Fate intervenes,' a character named Fate should really show up and throw and intervention." We were tickled when that essentially happened.

- It was really nice seeing Ellen again. And knowing Jo was alive, too.

- That whole "better to have not been born at all than to die a horrible, messy death" gives me ideas.

Please keep in mind I am almost completely UNSPOILED for the remainder of the season. Let's try to keep it that way?

Comments

[writingpathways.livejournal.com]

The way I'm reading it is Cas is up in Heaven fighting to keep Raphael and his goons at bay and making really hard choices, really really hard hard choices that no one should have to have to make. And I think the Titanic thing was one of them -- though a part of me does wonder if Cas knew ahead of time one of the side efefcts would be Ellen and Jo coming back? It was just so awesome to see Ellen and her and Bobby -- it was just pitch perfect and so heartachey.

That said, I also wonder if keeping the boys out of the loop on a lot of the details isn't his way of trying to protect them.

Also at the end when Dean asks if Balthy really did just because he hated the movie and Cas says yes -- it's SO obvious Cas is lying but Dean just believes it, he has Cas blinders, he doesn't want to believe Cas would lie to him -- and eep. When it hits the fan it's going to be awesome in a heartbreaking way.

[annundriel.livejournal.com]

YES. I basically agree with your whole comment. Especially regarding the choices Castiel is being forced to make (who knows what would happen if Raphael was in power) and keeping Sam and Dean out of the loop. He wants them safe and he will do anything to keep them safe. Including lie to them.

Which is, I think, another one of those tough decisions (on a different level). Or at least a decision that's going to end up biting him in the ass. Like a parent or friend deciding you can't handle the truth when really you should have been told all along.

When it hits the fan it's going to be awesome in a heartbreaking way.

It really is. I'm not sure what it says about me that I'm looking forward to it. I think it's because, for me anyway, it feels like we're picking up more steam again story-wise. There's a lot of potential in the inevitable explosion.

[mulder200.livejournal.com]

Huh. I was just reminded of the idea that we can't ascribe human morality on non-human entities. We try to make sense of God and God's actions, but God isn't looking at things on the same level we are. We're back to God and God's bigger picture that Castiel talked about in "It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester." We're even looking at a similar situation with the 50,000 people who would never be born if the Titanic sank. I imagine to a deity and an angelic being, that's small potatoes.

Except that Castiel is tied to Dean and Sam, and Castiel's been human, and this isn't just something he can distance himself from. He gave up everything to keep Dean's good opinion of him, to keep Dean's friendship. He's playing with history and souls now, the lives of thousands. He knows what Dean's opinion of that will be, and he desperately wants them to understand why he's doing what he is.

Bingo! Castiel is making some difficult hard choices and I believe he feels guilt for it because he KNOWS that Dean would be horrified and disappointed so that's why he trying to keep them in the dark.

- I wish this show made more sense sometimes. There's Fate--Atropos--from Greek mythology, but she's subject to God's will? Like we were given other deities and they were all sort of powerless in the face of, well, Lucifer (a friggin' angel)?

What.

Whatever, SPN. What. Ever.

Yeah. Considering how SPN is so Christian based, throwing in these other deities is just not working well.

[annundriel.livejournal.com]

He knows Dean would be horrified and disappointed, but then it comes down to, well, what else can he do? Is there someone else to take Castiel's place and save him from the hard choices? Would the alternative be better?

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[everstar3.livejournal.com]

My firm belief this entire time has been that Cas is basically treating Heaven the way Dean treats Sam: love it or hate it, you do not leave it when it needs you. Even if it tears you apart. And I suspect a lot of Cas's frustration this season comes from Dean not understanding that.

I hate to say it, because I love my boys, but I haven't watched most of the season because I really really do not want to see Dean and Cas ripping at each other. It breaks my heart too much. Not that I'm surprised by it, but it hurts.

Someone was making noises about being worried that Cas is going to be the surprise Big Bad of the season, and I'm kind of wondering if they're setting up season seven (?!) for being the season where they bring Cas back to the "good" side, if that's the case. Or something.

(If there is a season seven and Cas is in it, there will have been more seasons with Misha than without him. Isn't that something?)

What does it say about me that I love this show even when I can't bring myself to watch it? XD

(I cheered the "angel who's in love with you" line anyway when I heard about it because a) duh and b) it's nice to believe that even when they're at bitter odds, Cas doesn't hate Dean. I choose to believe that Balthy was being a smarmy prick re: Sam.)

[annundriel.livejournal.com]

Cas is basically treating Heaven the way Dean treats Sam: love it or hate it, you do not leave it when it needs you. Even if it tears you apart. And I suspect a lot of Cas's frustration this season comes from Dean not understanding that.

Yes, I love that a lot. Castiel is, essentially, following Dean's example. Just like he was following Dean's example at the end of season five. Castiel's family had kicked him out and treated him like dirt, but they're his family and the Winchesters have shown him that you're there for them no matter what.

I think some of the frustration also comes from no one talking about anything. Would it actually kill them all to have a complete conversation? Geez.

Someone was making noises about being worried that Cas is going to be the surprise Big Bad of the season, and I'm kind of wondering if they're setting up season seven (?!) for being the season where they bring Cas back to the "good" side, if that's the case.

Ah, you're creeping into spoilery speculation territory. ;) Honestly, I think that would be great. Of course, I also think making Cas the Big Bad would be kind of great, too. Because he isn't really bad. And I don't think he would be really bad, not the kind that really requires, y'know, smiting. But again, it's the question of "do the ends justify the means?"

It's complicated, and I kind of love it.

it's nice to believe that even when they're at bitter odds, Cas doesn't hate Dean

Oh, Cas definitely doesn't hate Dean. Would he be so fiercely protective of him (and Sam) if he did?

[picklepegg.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree with everything you said about Cas, his choices and reasoning behind them - all those regrettable things he's been having to do in order to be the lesser of two evils.

It's Castiel's turn to answer: peace or freedom? And freedom at what cost?

I really hope they do ask this of Cas in the last few episodes, because it would be perfect - and that it's Dean to ask it. It would be like coming full circle, which any good TV writer knows is how you link your seasons and episodes to give them a more depth...or something like that :)

You're not alone in looking forward to the heartbreaking fallout that seems to be on the horizon. It will break me, but I love this show most when it makes me sob, and with Misha and Jensen sparking off each other that's a dead cert, those boys say so much with just their faces....add words... :'(

The way I'm reading the "angel in love with you" and Sam's boyfriend comments are that the latter is very much like playground teasing. Balthazar saw that Cas clearly had some affection for Sam, but rather than being "adult" and seeing as friendship he resorted to a version of "ooooooh look, it's your boyfriend!" *complete with internal giggling*

The "angel in love with you", while on paper it may have been a general comment towards the both of them, the editor/director made a choice by having the reaction shot be a single of Dean (which if I'm remembering all I learned at college about how you piece together shots and make meaning) is pretty much a definite "yes this comment was directed towards Dean, this is his reaction"

I digress, I feel the comment has more weight anyway because of the use of "love" - it's a significant emotion, rather than a teasing use of boyfriend. Also, despite the sarcasm dripping off the entire comment, it seemed more serious... I'm not sure how, but to me it did. May have something to do with Dean's borderline non-reaction, which to my little slashers heart spoke volumes!

But yeah, that's how I reasoned why one has more meaning XD

Very much enjoyed your thoughts, and I hope you remain unspoiled - if I somehow spew spoilers in your vicinity via Twitter, I'm really sorry and choice of punishment is yours!

[annundriel.livejournal.com]

I should be going to bed, but I wanted to respond to this before I forgot what I wanted to say. :D

I really hope they do ask this of Cas in the last few episodes, because it would be perfect - and that it's Dean to ask it. It would be like coming full circle...

Yes! It's great that you mention that because a little while after I posted this I got to thinking about how disappointed Dean is going to be when the truth comes out (as it must) and how that parallels how disappointed Castiel was in Dean last season when Dean took off to say yes to Michael. So in this case to have Dean use the words Cas used on him, to have him ask Castiel the same question...oh. I would love that.

Balthazar saw that Cas clearly had some affection for Sam, but rather than being "adult" and seeing as friendship he resorted to a version of "ooooooh look, it's your boyfriend!"

Oh, I do like this reading. Don't get me wrong, though; I do like the line. I love it even. I think I'm just on an excitement down cycle? It happened and I went "HOMG" and my mom went "HOMG" (and then kept repeating it), so, y'know. I'm sure eventually I'll be back to HOMG. ;)

To further your reading, you could also say that it's interesting he says "in love with you" since there's a difference between loving someone and being in love with them. (Hmm, something to play with in fic perhaps? I will admit I've got a couple of ideas fic-wise thanks to that line. Though considering how slow things have been lately, I'll probably miss the boat on those.)

I LOVED Dean's "borderline non-reaction." LOVED. And yes, isn't it interesting that's the take they went for, or the choices they made there? Sometimes I want to pick the brains of everyone involved. (Okay, most of the time.)

As for spoilers, oh man, I will definitely think of suitable punishments just in case. ;) I also want to apologize for how cranky they sometimes make me on Twitter. I hate being spoiled for this show.

[picklepegg.livejournal.com]

how disappointed Dean is going to be when the truth comes out (as it must) and how that parallels how disappointed Castiel was in Dean last season when Dean took off to say yes to Michael. So in this case to have Dean use the words Cas used on him, to have him ask Castiel the same question...

Nail on the head, right there! We know that Supernatural loves its narrative symmetry; having Dean and Sam switch roles etc, so if they miss this opportunity to do the same with Dean and Cas...it will be an utter waste.

he says "in love with you" since there's a difference between loving someone and being in love with them.

Yes! It could have so easily have been "the angel who loves you" which really wouldn't have had the same impact, as "in love", the in the moment, nowness of the "in love" - it's like a little nudge for Dean to realize that his effect on Cas is a constant and developing thing. (Gah, it's so late and I'm stupidly tired that I can't make my thoughts make sense lol)

I will admit I've got a couple of ideas fic-wise thanks to that line. Though considering how slow things have been lately, I'll probably miss the boat on those

This makes me crazy happy, and you should not worry about not getting CODA type or episode inspired fic out straight after it airs, as I'm sure I'm not alone in being quite happy to wait until you get it perfected by your standard. To be honest I still love reading CODA's or fic inspired by dialog from episodes long since aired. If the scene, line etc struck a significant enough chord within the fandom then fic inspired by it will always be welcome :D

Sometimes I want to pick the brains of everyone involved. (Okay, most of the time.)

Ditto, I would love to see what the other takes for so many scenes/shots were like and why they were passed over for what gets aired. I just adored how it wasn't the typical eye roll or look of indignation, it was almost a look of "Yeah, I already knew this"....or something like that :D

I will definitely think of suitable punishments just in case *GULP*

Do not worry about crankiness, I totally get not wanting to be spoiled, I wish I could do that myself, but the draw to glimpse ahead is too strong lol

That and I'm a little weird and the knowing certain facts, lines etc really doesn't detract from the episode when I watch it....I think I like being in the know XD That and it's always interesting to see the spoilers in the episode context.

Much of this may or may not have made sense, brain is a little all over right now.... and now I should really sleep...

[annundriel.livejournal.com]

Okay, I don't really have much more to add on the subject (at least at the moment), but this--his effect on Cas is a constant and developing thing.

Yeees. I love that.

I just adored how it wasn't the typical eye roll or look of indignation, it was almost a look of "Yeah, I already knew this"....or something like that :D

It was a very interesting non-reaction. No appalled or annoyed facial expressions pulled. It was just...there.

I don't mind spoilers with (most) other shows. I'll even go out looking for them sometimes. I just prefer SPN unspoiled. Although I am tired of getting cranky when people are like "OMG SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER" on twitter. ;)

[trobadora]

OMG, I'm so behind on SPN, but I want to watch this NOW.

[annundriel.livejournal.com]

It was surprisingly satisfying, imo! Especially with Castiel's storyline picking up steam.

I think I saw that you'd caught up? I need to go read your post.

[trobadora]

Yeah, I've finally caught up, and I'm very much looking forward to tomorrow's ep. (It's tomorrow, right?)

[annundriel.livejournal.com]

Yes, it is tomorrow! It looks like it should be good. Or, at least, different.

[trobadora]

Ah, I'm glad! I'm never quite sure with the holidays.

And I've generally liked the "themed" episodes, so this should be fun even apart from the arc stuff. *keeps fingers crossed for some serious development anyway*

[annundriel.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping they'll be able to fold some arc-related development in with the fun. I always love it when I spend an episode going, "oh, this is fun!" and 15 minutes from the end realize, omg, it is part of the bigger picture.

[trobadora]

Chances are pretty good, aren't they? The closer we get to the end of the season ...