More Supernatural Thoughts
Nov. 20th, 2009 01:46 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
annundrielSo I was replying to a comment from ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ember_firedrake in my last post and got to thinking more about guilt and how that can influence choices and behavior. I said that I thought Ellen and Jo dying made the whole thing - the apocalypse - that much more personal. Which may sound a bit odd because, well, with Sam set to host Lucifer and Dean set to host Michael, how much more personal can you get? Add to that the fact that Sam started it...
What I mean is that instead of just hearing from Lucifer and the angels that they are destined to take on these roles, instead of just seeing a potential future, the deaths of Ellen and Jo are something immediate and in the Winchester's faces. We also have Bobby without the use of his legs, and while this is a reminder of their guilt, it's also something that he might recover from. They might save the day. Bobby might walk again.
I want to say, "But death is death," except this is Supernatural and, what, everyone's died at least once? So death is death unless your last name is Winchester (though perhaps it's more if your initials are DW or SW) or you're an angel.
(This reminds me that I'd kind of like to do something with the idea that Dean and Castiel have both died and been brought back to bodies made whole.)
But Ellen and Jo essentially sacrificed themselves for the cause, a cause which neither Dean nor Sam really feel is anyone else's. Again with the destiny. No matter how much they both deny it, they keep hearing it and you have to wonder a little if that will start to wear them down. Especially if giving into destiny means they can save the people closest to them.
Which sort of leads to what I was going to end up rambling about in my comment: I wonder if there is a glimpse of the origins of future!Dean from "The End" in "Abandon All Hope." There you have a Dean who has thrown himself into this war. He tortures. He kills his own people without batting an eye. He's lost Sam and Bobby. Now we know he's lost Ellen and Jo. Castiel is broken. He doesn't seem close to anyone. I can't help but wonder if that's a reaction to stepping into his position of leader (which you can see him wanting to back away from in his conversation with Bobby via the radio, I feel) and having to make the hard decisions. In doing so he's had to shut off the part of himself that cares. Because otherwise it's just too damn hard to keep going.
Geez, Dean is fucked up.
And present!Dean didn't recognize that, not really, because at that point he'd broken away from Sam, but that's it. There was always the possibility of Sam there.
Dean's right. They do keep each other human.
(I wonder if future!Dean ever tried to push Castiel away. But Castiel is such a stubborn bastard he refused to go and ended up...fallen and jagged around the edges because he'd rather stay with Dean and offer that much than leave and see Dean fall apart completely.)
I don't actually have any conclusion to this. And now I've mostly gone and depressed myself. Go me!
City council and port articles today. I am a writing machine!
ember_firedrake in my last post and got to thinking more about guilt and how that can influence choices and behavior. I said that I thought Ellen and Jo dying made the whole thing - the apocalypse - that much more personal. Which may sound a bit odd because, well, with Sam set to host Lucifer and Dean set to host Michael, how much more personal can you get? Add to that the fact that Sam started it...What I mean is that instead of just hearing from Lucifer and the angels that they are destined to take on these roles, instead of just seeing a potential future, the deaths of Ellen and Jo are something immediate and in the Winchester's faces. We also have Bobby without the use of his legs, and while this is a reminder of their guilt, it's also something that he might recover from. They might save the day. Bobby might walk again.
I want to say, "But death is death," except this is Supernatural and, what, everyone's died at least once? So death is death unless your last name is Winchester (though perhaps it's more if your initials are DW or SW) or you're an angel.
(This reminds me that I'd kind of like to do something with the idea that Dean and Castiel have both died and been brought back to bodies made whole.)
But Ellen and Jo essentially sacrificed themselves for the cause, a cause which neither Dean nor Sam really feel is anyone else's. Again with the destiny. No matter how much they both deny it, they keep hearing it and you have to wonder a little if that will start to wear them down. Especially if giving into destiny means they can save the people closest to them.
Which sort of leads to what I was going to end up rambling about in my comment: I wonder if there is a glimpse of the origins of future!Dean from "The End" in "Abandon All Hope." There you have a Dean who has thrown himself into this war. He tortures. He kills his own people without batting an eye. He's lost Sam and Bobby. Now we know he's lost Ellen and Jo. Castiel is broken. He doesn't seem close to anyone. I can't help but wonder if that's a reaction to stepping into his position of leader (which you can see him wanting to back away from in his conversation with Bobby via the radio, I feel) and having to make the hard decisions. In doing so he's had to shut off the part of himself that cares. Because otherwise it's just too damn hard to keep going.
Geez, Dean is fucked up.
And present!Dean didn't recognize that, not really, because at that point he'd broken away from Sam, but that's it. There was always the possibility of Sam there.
Dean's right. They do keep each other human.
(I wonder if future!Dean ever tried to push Castiel away. But Castiel is such a stubborn bastard he refused to go and ended up...fallen and jagged around the edges because he'd rather stay with Dean and offer that much than leave and see Dean fall apart completely.)
I don't actually have any conclusion to this. And now I've mostly gone and depressed myself. Go me!
City council and port articles today. I am a writing machine!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2009-11-21 04:20 am (UTC)Jeez, I'm depressing myself too just thinking about it. It might break me a little if we actually see things get even close to as bad as they were in "The End". Especially Cas.
I can't decide if I love or hate the potential for angst that's been created.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-11-21 06:35 am (UTC)Then again, as Samifer said, whatever choices Dean makes, they'll lead to the same destination.
Oh, who's to say one of the steps toward that destination wasn't Dean reuniting with Sam?
I think I could see all of this pushing Dean either toward saying "yes" or toward becoming that future version of himself.
omg, if Cas ends up in the state he was in during "The End," I don't know how I'll handle that. Not well.
At this point I'm about where I'm enjoying the potential for angst but haaaaating worrying about what might/could happen. I'm going to go write happy, care-free fic to cheer myself up now. :)